Poker Content
Do not read any further if you do not want poker content. I must appease the masses every once in a while.
First I would like to make a comment on playing morons. You know what I am talking about. The person who plays any two cards, seeing 85% of the flops, and calling your huge bets to the river with third pair. I have noticed a tendency in people to play back huge against these types of players. So a normally sane person who would never commit their entire stack with TPSK suddenly will push on a flush board with TPSK. As the moron stacks their chips in glee the good player grumbles about how bad the sucky player is. I think we all have the tendency to play down to these types of people. In a way you need to. However make sure you do it in moderation. Wait for the huge hand to kill them. Do not call the pre-flop all in bet they make with sevens and wonder what happened. If you wait them out you will destroy them. You probably need to be willing to call off a little more of your stack on weaker hands but do not go too far. Just something I was mulling around in my head after I considered calling a big river bet by a fish with a pair on the board. Of course she had rivered her trips. I did fold.
Secondly I want to put a hand out that I am sure will get alot of comments. I am to the right of a solid player. A real "I only raise with class A hands" kind of fellow. So he raises a buck and I call to see if I can trap him with my 53c. The flop gives me an OESD and a Flush draw. For those of you with Smokkee disease that means that technically I am ahead. I can expect to win this hand 56% of the time. I will lose it 46% of the time. So he bets out I raise inducing a push from him. I actually wanted to have him push and I probably should have just pushed myself. The reasoning here is that if I turn my flush I am getting no more money out of him. So if I want the odds to remain in my favor all the money has to go in here. So here is the question and think about it before you answer. You put your whole stack in the middle with a draw that is going to win 56% of the time against the hands you can put him on. He actually had KK. Is this actually a good play? Would you prefer to wait for a better hand where you can be 60-70-80% favorite or is the fact that you will win over time enough for you? So you decide: Do you wait or do you push? What kind of player are you? How opposed are you to either choice and why?
posted by SirFWALGMan at
3:33 PM
9 Comments:
What type of tournament is this? If it's early in a MTT, I'd take the edge and push. If you win, you don't have to work as hard in the middle of the tournament.
I read an article the other day that said that sometimes you should push here even if you're a slight underdog: http://www.cardplayer.com/magazine/article/15093
4:11 PM
Oops. My bad. This is in a cash game. In an tourney its a little easier decision.
4:54 PM
I'm even more likely to put my money in the middle in a cash game. In the long run, an edge is an edge and you make money by pushing your edges.
7:10 PM
I hate taking chances, but if you can get all the money in on the flop when you're holding OESD + Flush draw, then do it.
Normally though, I try to push my opponent off the pot. Out of position, I check-raise all-in after he bets the flop. I'm hoping for the fold, but if he calls, it's all good as well.
Ultimately, win or lose, I'm hoping that my push makes others want to call my big bets: that way I really get paid off when I flop the nut flush and come out betting like a crazy bugger.
6:18 AM
Interesting hand. Jordan posted a similar one two or three "you decides" ago against me. Pretty much everyone said push, although his cards weren't exactly the same, but I think the masses will say the same.
6:30 AM
In a cash game it's a definite push, so long as you can categorically put him on AA, KK, etc.
The only hand to worry about is would he raise something like AKs, AQs, and play it exactly the same was as if he had an overpair.
I remember (very fondly) a hand I played last year where I raised AKs, and got called by an EP limper. The flop had two of my suit so I bet, he check-called, and when I hit the nut flush on the turn I was just pondering how to extract the maximum when he pushed all-in and my insta-call revealed his smaller flush. Nasty for him. Nice for me.
6:53 AM
Woffle, what I find most interesting is your explanation of why you want to be all-in on the flop. As you put it (paraphrased), if your draw hits, the action will cool, but if you get it in now, you are getting your money in WITH the advantage. Whatever the case, well thought out and well explained. Oh, did you hit?
7:55 AM
Although it is not applicable to the discusion I turned my straight. I am on the fence as to if it was the right move. Everyone says if you have a statistical edge push it as hard as you can, but running 5% over time can get you broke awfully fast.
8:04 AM
Put your cash in the middle in the cash game because of the fold equity that it shows in addition to the % you will win at showdown.
I do think you have to play sets in a similar way after pulling that type of move to really mess with them.
I think a tougher question is do you show if they fold? I probably would in order to setup the push with a flopped set with flush and straight draws on board.
That is one way I get people to call me with TPSK when I am well ahead.
7:57 AM
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