Thursday, May 18, 2006


Had some amount of fun playing the WWDN:Not tonight. I got alot of flack for two plays I made. One against Bone Daddy and one against Sox. I ended up in third. Even better, DuggleBoggey Bubbled.. which normally I would only take a little joy in, but since he was mocking my game I felt it was nice to see him go from first to last and bubble out.

The first play was when I was in a hand with 37s or some hand like that. I do not beleive it was raised pre-flop and it was multi-way. The flop gives me a pair of three's, a gutshot, and a flush draw. So I push. I get called by Daddy. He has a zillion outs, two of which kill my flush draw. HOWEVER, according to some people, I made the right move because I WAS AHEAD. This is why results oriented talk makes no sense. I really should have folded. However since I made the power move, and all he had was Q high, he really should not have called most of his stack off. With all the outs he had it was not a bad call. He decided to gamble and lost. The funniest thing though was when he berated me throughout the rest of the game for that play. Uh.. Sorry for having the best hand, I will try not to next time. He even waited until I busted out of the tourney. In third place. ITM. I thought he had left by then but when I pushed all in against Hoyazo knowing he was going to call me Bone Daddy pops his little head up and berates me for playing the Hammer. Uh. Ok.

The other play that was kind of fun tonight was when SoxLover raised 3xB with KK. I called because I had him out chipped, I was way ahead in chips, and it was Sox! I had 64o btw. The flop of course comes 64x. He bets out, I push him all in, he calls, he loses, he cries. Actually he took it pretty well. Only berated me twice and did not wait until I busted out to go to sleep.

I have a couple of suggestions here. First off this is not the WSOP or some high stakes tourney. It is a fun game. Enjoy it. I know the ONLY reason I play any of these games is to have fun. I would never have gone all in against Hoyazo, when he had $210 left, and he had bet 2K into a pot, with "The Hammer" if it was not a fun game. I hear way too many of you people getting pissed off at these games. The point of this kind of game is to bond with your fellow Bloggers, have a fun time, talk trash.. it is not to take yourself too seriously and berate players who you think played a hand wrong.

The second point is: Always look at what you did wrong, not what the other person did. If you did nothing wrong then fine. However if you are just looking at your pretty kings and do not consider that someone could have something when they re-raise you then it is your fault. If you want to gamble basically your entire game on a flush draw then understand the conssciquences if you lose. Live with them. Do not blame the player who beat you.

Congrats for Hoyazo for going from worse to first and taking it all down. I guess the next game is the Blogger tourney. Cya There.


Blogger SoxLover said...

You said it was just a friendly game, not the WSOP. I agree.

Neither of us a close to being a kid, so I’m writing this comment adult to adult rather than flamer to flamer.

We all have our foibles and I'll admit, I often go off the rails when I get cracked or when someone looks me up when I think they shouldn’t have (CJ’s point about this last thing is dead on, one has no right to get angry for not being believed a poker table, I’m working on it). That makes me less than fun to play with in friendly and less friendly games when things go wrong. I think I hold this in check much more in games with people I don't know--expressing anger is natural in my family and when I'm comfortable with people I'm more likely to let go. Nevertheless, this is something that I am not proud of and frankly would like to change.

I, like you, have a strong personality that requires my friends to be tolerant of my extremes—I hope that sometimes what I provide in return for putting up with my bullshit makes their troubles worth it. When I am out of line with them, I hope they tell me to give me a chance to be more conscious of their sensitivities because I value them as friends and wouldn’t want them to decide I wasn’t worth the grief.

You said "Actually he took it pretty well. Only berated me twice and did not wait until I busted out to go to sleep." The reason why I restrained myself as much as I could is because the one thing I immediately understood about your play was that you actually made it primarily to make me angry and berate you. Tell yourself it was about implied odds if you’d like, but the driving factor was that this makes you happy, fulfills some dark inner need. The taunting in the game, which can be friendly, is something that fuels you in a way it doesn't other people. You sought my anger more than my chips. I had already given you the latter and did my best to give you as little as I could of the former.

Frankly, I think your play was a dick move not because it was bad poker, but because making a play with the sole intention of tilting someone in what as you say was a friendly game is a dick move. I was going to write this to you as an e-mail, but I couldn't find one on your site and decided anyway I am not saying anything that's not worth saying in a comment. I am perhaps not quite naïve enough to think you will be able or even want to change this about yourself or that you value my regard enough to care, but I have to tell you that as much as I sometimes enjoy your intelligence and unique personality, I’m considering folding this hand.

6:35 AM

Blogger DuggleBogey said...

I never mocked your game.

I mocked the fact that you fellated Fluxer the whole time.

7:27 AM

Blogger DuggleBogey said...

Frankly, I think your play was a dick move not because it was bad poker, but because making a play with the sole intention of tilting someone in what as you say was a friendly game is a dick move.

Actually, a lot of people don't call this a "dick move." A lot of people call this "Poker."

7:28 AM

Blogger Tom aka 10,000 Days said...

It shouldn't be a friendly game. It should be a game involving people who are friendly away from the tables.

Implied odds, to make someone steam -- seriously, who gives a shit? Your goal at the table is to win, not to play by the book or only bust someone in a way they'll respect.

7:51 AM

Blogger SoxLover said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

8:14 AM

Blogger CJ said...

In CJ's crazy world of poker, it's almost NEVER wrong to push all in, but more often than not... it's wrong to call an all-in.

When you push all-in, you can win two ways, by forcing a fold or by having your hand hold up. When you call an all-in, you're only way of winning is to have the better hand at the end. You've allowed your opponent to take the lead on the hand and put the pressure on you.

In the first hand, you pushed and got called. Considering you were ahead and got your money in first, it's hard to berate your play there. You felt even if you were behind, you had lots of outs. It's a play I'd make. In the second hand, you were ahead again. The preflop call is suspect, but you seem to excel in those recently ;-)

Oh, and poker is a mean angry game. If you can't take it, spend some time away from the table.

8:17 AM

Blogger SirFWALGMan said...

Damn maybe Sox took it harder than I thought.. lol.

I honestly had no intention of tilting you when I called your $60/$90 Soxy.. I did enjoy stacking you with my two pair but just because you like telling me all the time how much better you are than I am..

If you read my blog which I think you do then you will know I have been experimenting with hands like the one that stacked you.. so you were the side effect of an experiment..

I do stand on my original statement: At least take two minutes to think about what I could possible have before you call an all in with two outs.. I easily could have had a set and you probably would have said "Nicely played".. Only because it was two weird cards did you have a problem with it..

8:51 AM

Blogger Tom aka 10,000 Days said...

Those hands are played for just that reason, waf. To stack an opponent who has an overpair and can't get away from it because the ragged flop looks harmless. I don't think you should ever have to justify a play you've made. That goes for anyone.

9:15 AM

Blogger SoxLover said...

Thanks for your thoughts Tom and CJ, I suspect it's a matter of context.

I guess I'm sounding like a baby in trying to make a real point, but that is the risk one takes.

When I play generally, it's just poker, when I play some blogger madness at 11:30 at night for $11, it's not just poker--if it was, it would be a horrible, -EV waste of time.

I am not criticizing the poker of the play and I can take the beats--just moved to another table and was fine--just pointing out that spend a bunch of time chatting with Waffles online and you'll notice the constant theme of taunting and the joy he gets from seeing someone on tilt. That's part of the game, but I don't have to chat with guy--I chose to.

When Alfonse, a New York club fixture for intentional tilt inducement, does this to me at a live table with a lot of chips on it, I turn up my headphones, play my game and think "what a dick". When Waffles does it, I could just do the same I guess will have to, but when it is someone I otherwise like, I'd rather not have to take that tack, since I don't think he's a dick.

9:56 AM

Blogger drewspop said...

He said "flamer to flamer" He he

11:33 AM

Blogger HighOnPoker said...

Let's look at the other hand, where you had 37s. Now, it WAS raised preflop, by me with 99. The flop was all under cards, and I must say, that when you re-raise me all-in, you got me to fold my superior hand. So, you know what, I like the play, even if you are a cocksucker. You rivered the two-pair, so my laydown actually protected me anyway, so see if I care, dickhead.

Bone Daddy though should have been ashamed of calling your hand there. He had two overs and a flush draw and they weren't even good overs.

Oh, and the raise preflop was from 20 to 80. I think that may've been my fault, thinking that 4x the BB would be enough, but in actuality in these games with low BBs, I should've raised to 120.

PS- No matter what Sox says to you, it's still flamer to flamer, just not in the blogger sense of the word, ya damn flamers.

PPS- Much love Waffles. I'm enjoying watching your game develop. We should play heads up some time. It's not something I usually do, but you and I, being so competitive, it might make for a good time.

11:43 AM

Blogger CJ said...

Come on Sox... is there anyone more fun to watch tilt that Waffles!?!?

I save extra special suckouts just for him! But only because he roots against me at the final table ;-)

12:26 PM

Blogger PokerFool said...

I like how a lot of these blogger tournies and WWdN tournies are like home games.

When I go to my local home game, I go with a pretty good friend of mine. I go to have fun, socialize, etc.. Winning money is a little bonus. But my main goal is to put my friend on tilt. And I tell him up front that that is my goal. Why do I do this? Because it is fun, and my friend goes on tilt real easy. Plus, the next day, we can rag on each other and laugh our asses off.

And if you want to put waffles on tilt, call his all-in bet with AJo like I did a few weeks ago in the WWdN. Muahaha.


12:51 PM

Anonymous mookie99 said...

Geez, this reminds me of when I was kid...back in the ol' days...when you would have a squabble with a good friend and then a few days later everything would be fine.....

*sniff* can't we all just be friends...

I agree with CJ...I miss the "CB's" Waffles used to drop in the old days...what the hell man...where did those go ?

12:56 PM

Blogger Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazo said...

Of course these games are just friendly. Anyone who is seriously getting angry at these things, at least outside of normal circumstances, is probably not in the same mindset as I would guess most of the other people in attendance are.

That said, I can't say that I'm not a victim to some if not most of what Sox writes about. Lord knows I am the Tilt King, and I've been known to lay into people in the chat if they donk around hard enough. But I don't think it's accurate or fair to characterize what Waffles did as trying to tilt Sox. From reading his blog regularly, Waffles has clearly been experimenting with playing shit hands and seeing what he can do with them. That's all this was about, I am fairly sure. And I'd say, even if it were true that he was just trying to tilt Sox, it's still not right to criticize him for it. People are free to make whatever plays they want for whatever reasons they want, as long as there's no collusion or cheating going on. Honestly, guys like Sox (and myself) survive because of people who try to target us personally, even playing stupidass hands to reach that goal. Sox should be happy if he believes Waffles was willing to play a hand like 64o just to try to tilt him. Which I don't believe he was, and I wouldn't care anyways.

Btw, as if this isn't already obvious, but of course when someone makes a play that represents a big hand, I read them correctly to be bluffing and I call them down with, say, middle pair and I take down a big pot, and then they proceed to berate me because I didn't fold like the way they wanted me to, that is utter moronicism at its finest. Of course it's great if someone like Waffles or Fluxer wants to try to play like that, but making that decision goes hand in hand with accepting that you'll have to be 100% okay with it when your opponent doesn't get the signals, or worse yet, gets them but specifically thinks you are bluffing. There is almost nothing better than responding in the chat to these ubermorons with something like "I knew you were bluffing, so I called you down, and I was right. And now your stack is $____ lighter, and mine is that much heavier. Thank you, come again!" or something like that. 100% monkey tilt-inducing, every time. Guaranteed!

1:07 PM

Blogger SirFWALGMan said...

Thats what I am trying to induce Hoyazo.. When people see you flip 64o for a big hand they NEVER give you credit afterwards. If you can change up and wait for a monster you get more action after that.. People just dont know what to put you on. Anyway.. The experiment is going well and will continue.

1:29 PM

Blogger DP said...

DuggleMoron: "I never mocked your game.

I mocked the fact that you fellated Fluxer the whole time."

You're not mocking his (Waffle's) game, but rather you have a problem with him crediting me for teaching him to play that way? Moron.

3:26 PM

Blogger iamhoff said...

What we have learned here is that Waffles (apparently) fellates Fluxer, but more importantly has a super wide (read: Any. Two. Cards) calling range, especially with a big stack. Hell, we all play the hammer from time to time (right SirF), so a 64o or T3 shouldn't be completely unexpected. We just all expect the hammer because we all know about it. Take what you've learned about the player in question (Waffles, Sox, Flux, me, whomever) and plan accordingly for the next hand. These games are fun, dammit! Yes, from a dollar standpoint they are -EV a lot of the time, and sure it is frustrating to get beat (both an honest beat and a bad beat). But they are hella +EV from a fun standpoint. And I'm putting the 64o into the Blogger Hand Dictionary as the Waffle.

My $.02.

3:43 PM

Blogger SirFWALGMan said...

I do not see how ANYONE can say that Sox was "Bad Beat". Sixty bucks out of over two thousand was put in the pot pre-flop.. He made a mistake by putting in an additional 2K after I had him beat. That is not my definition of a bad beat. If I had pushed with 6 high and rivered a 4, that would be a bad beat.

4:58 PM

Blogger Eric a.k.a. Bone Daddy said...

I thought the whole game was awesome fun the other night, I wasn't on tilt (o.k. a little, but that is the fun part of the weekly games). You didn't deserve to win those two hands, but that is poker. Your sninker was well derserved.

As for our show down, I knew with you in jordan in a hand that you guys would push with any thing, I read that part of the equation correct, I forgot I needed to fullfil the other end (matching cards) to win.

Catch you next week.

10:02 AM

Blogger FishyMcDonk said...

I know you read my last post - I ALWAYS blame the other guy, or the cards. Waffles, you have inspired me. From now on I play A4o no matter what.

12:27 PM

Blogger Iakaris aka I.A.K. said...

I've been reading you and most of the guys who've replied to this for a while now. This is my first comment on your highly entertaining blog and all I have to say is:

I can't believe I missed this game. Never. Again. Neh - Vah.

6:15 PM


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