Monday, December 20, 2004

Some actual thoughts..

I wanted to review Felicia’s hand last night again. It really goes to the heart of one of my problems with HE. I always want to be right. Yeah, big surprise, right? I hate getting bluffed out. It is always a great thrill to see someone bluffing me and have my 2nd pair stand up or something like that. Case in point: The pot was smallish. Felicia did what your supposed to do with top pair. She made a pot limit bet. Unfortunately I totally misread it as her missing her hand. Not one to be bluffed by someone I go all in with my TP HORRIBLE kicker. I mean that play was the worst! K3! Jesus! Somehow the evil poker gods decide to allow my stupid play to stand and I spike a 3 on the river to beat Felicia’s AA.

So here is a question to all of you: When do you stand up to bluffing? I mean everyone is out there trying to steal your blinds and scare you off pots. How the hell do you ever get a good read? Do you just wait until you have close to the NUTS and then make them pay? I think that might be too weak. Do you always hold the All-In stick over there head? I have no answer for this. I am trying to be aggressive in my game yet not stupid. Oh well. I probably will not have to worry about it for too much longer if I keep losing. No way am I buying in for $200 again and building my stack in the .50/1 game. I just would not be able to play that level correctly anymore. The O8 book had a good quote “When people raise you they usually have something”. I find this to be true. The few time’s I am correct that they do not have a hand are far fewer than the times I am wrong and it costs me money.

One reason my Bankroll is in this stupid predicament is because I wanted to get back to 3K too quickly. The lure of the 5/6 short games is strong! Hopefully I have purged this out of my system. Someday I might purge it for good. Until then I need to keep it in check. Losing drives me crazy though. Especially when it is over extended periods of time.

On the good side I have plenty to work on in my Poker life. Gives me some goals to shoot for. If I make it then perhaps I will have become a decent Poker player. If not maybe it was not meant for me. We shall see.


Blogger Poker Nerd said...

With regards to picking off bluffs, I usually don't bother...particularly with small pots. You could start mixing a few bluffs in yourself to try and get back your chips.

One thing I like to do if things feel right is to "adopt the flop". Basically, play the hand as if you hit the flop perfectly. Say you're in the big blind with J4o and two or three limpers come along and let you see a free flop. The flop comes T33. Play the hand from there on as if you have a works more than you would think.

NL is a difficult game for people new to it. I've been playing almost two years now and I'm just starting to get comfortable enough to believe I can beat most players and mix it up more.

Just keep playing in your comfort zone and don't tilt away your bankroll.

It's too bad Lord Geznikor at took down his blog because that was a carbon copy of the trap you may be putting yourself into...just don't quit your day job yet :)

9:27 AM

Blogger Mourn said...

A few thoughts.

First and foremost, don't play K3. I don't have the details of the hand, but unless you were the BB in an unraised pot, K3 should be in the muck. If she just limped AA and you were in the BB, the suck out is actually her fault, not yours.

I try to be a very aggressive player, but your variance does increase a bit with your aggression level. It makes you easier to trap and the suckouts cost you even more. Sometimes you're building a pot for someone who is drawing, but those are the breaks, in the end, aggression is king and it makes you more money than it loses.

That being said, in order for aggression to be profitable, you have got to be in pots with cards that are the best or have a good chance to become the best. To me, limit holdem is two games: 1. A game against a (1 or 2) opponents where you have the best hand and your aggression is used to defend that hand against weaker hands with outs. 2. A game against more opponents where you hold the best draw and a decent made hand and your aggression is used to build pots when the odds are correct so that you are paid more when your hand hits.

No limit, on the other hand, is really a game of big cards played aggressively. Draws are less profitable against good opponents with strong holdings because you are usually heads up and the odds are against you. In either case, playing trash hands, catching a piece of the flop and acting aggressively is the fastest way to lose money. You want to be the one who is controlling the action and if you have the cards to do so, you'll win. If you try to force the issue with a marginal holding, you'll lose more often than not.

I completely understand where you're coming from on not wanting to be pushed around, I have to fight that urge myself. Because of that, I have to prevent myself from getting into situations like top pair crap kicker by not playing cards that lead to that situation. Play the good holdings, get in and pound away when you have the best of it, but when someone else does, get out of the way until you can take control.

9:30 AM

Blogger Human Head said...

The above 2 coments sum it up pretty well, so I won't beat you over the head with my own lengthy soliloquy. A K3 is just a bad hand, period. I know you know this, but slipped into "my manhood is being questioned" mode. It's especially tough not to get into a prick-waving contest when your trying to be aggressive, so just remind yourself to have solid holding before engaging. Trying to pick off bluffs is very -EV, IMO, as anyone who likes to try and bluff a lot will get theirs soon enough.

You are obviously a decent player to get up to a 3K BR. Get back to that guy so you can pull yourself out of this slump. If you keep getting too frustrated and lose the rest of your BR tying to push things, you'll regret it big time and end up despising yourself for it. Put the pride into the suitcase and get back to grinding.

I've been reading this blog long enough to know you're a better player than this. Keep your head up and good luck.

10:08 AM

Blogger SirFWALGMan said...

I beleive Felicia did raise. It was not a huge raise if I remember correctly. A few bucks. Enough that I should have probably dropped it. The k3 was s00ted, and I think my thinking was along the lines of "Well, let's just see if I hit the flush on the flop". Easy enough to walk away from. Pretty badly played all around really.

I will say the NL Blogger tables are freaking crazy, and almost every hand gets some sort of raise at points in the game because you know "Limping make's Baby Jesus cry". Once Iggy passes out it becomes easier to limp. heh. In addition almost everyone goes all in with 72o. The outsiders just shake their heads until we knock them out or scare them away.

On the good side of things I think I did play Iggy well a few times! I am actually proud of a few of those. Of course he was drunk as hell. I noticed whenever I limped in on him, he went and raised me like three bucks, so when I had a decent hand, I would limp on him, and then re-raise him like ten bucks back! Worked like a charm when he was drunk. If he was sober he probably would have kicked my ass!

10:19 AM

Blogger Poker Nerd said...

I really, really want "Limping makes baby Jesus cry" to become part of the poker lexicon. Then, I too can become a legend a la Grubby's Hammer and Pauly's Hilton Sisters.

I will of course have to give credit to the original inventor of "XXX makes baby Jesus cry"...I can't remember where I first saw/heard that (Fark, maybe?), but I use it daily.

12:29 PM

Blogger Chad said...

I wish I'd seen how this hand played out, but it was one of the few times that I was out of my chair for something.

I hate talking theory here, because I'm the last person that's qualified to do so. If I ever get a read on someone that screams "I'm making a play on this board with nothing!", I'm a little uncomfortable playing back at them for my entire stack, or theirs for that matter. I want my losses to be minimal if I happen to read wrong.

The way I look at it, there very few premium, raise-worthy hands you're ahead of here (10's-J's-Q's) , and the only way I'd push here is if I absolutely knew the player's game inside and out. Like, if in my notes it said "Makes pot-sized bets on missed flops. ONLY WHEN THEY MISS THE FLOP." Then again, this was a blogger table. heh

I don't mind being bluffed out of a small pot, especially when I'm holding top pair, negative kicker. If they happen to be bluffing like that, sooner or later they'll pick the absolute worst time to do so, and I'll end up with a monster.

12:31 PM

Blogger Mourn said...

Aren't the blogger tables pretty much -EV anyway? I think the fun and competative juice factor has to make up for it, but there are certainly better pickings out there. I had moderate success my first time, but I was getting monster cards. The level of play is much better than your average party table. That being said, I hope I get to do it more often, it sort of reminds me of that scene at the Taj in "Rounders" where everyone looks at the two unsuspecting guys who just sat at the table with all the sharks.

12:49 PM

Blogger SirFWALGMan said...

Yeah I agree with all of the comments.. it was a silly move. Sometimes I get too crazy. heh. Especially on the Blogger tables! Oh well.. maybe in a few years Felicia will forgive me. heh. Actually she took it very well. She even gave me good advice! Gotta love Felicia!

1:58 PM

Blogger Felicia :) said...

LOL, great comments.

Yeah, I raised to $3 in a $1.25 pot BTF, but you called from the BB anyway ;)

An EP limper: TeeDubb, folded.

The flop came down: K85 rainbow. You checked, I bet $6, you went all-in, I called. The turn was a 7, the river was a 3. You had two hearts, but there was only one heart on the flop, giving you top pair and a runner flush draw.

When you went in with a king on the flop, I knew you had a king, and that I had you.

I never mind bad beats. I'll take that call every day of the week...I wish I could always get those calls in the games I am playing!

You're playing way too loosely, but you know that already. Don't forget to write me about the SNG strategy and the O8 advice.

8:24 PM

Blogger BadBlood said...

Here's a way to pick off some bluffs.

Raise. Raise for information when it's cheap, i.e. post-flop/pre-turn. You could have made the bet $12.

Bluffers will usually call it quits right there. Felicia obviously would have went over the top all-in and at that point you'd have about 95% confidence she wasn't bluffing. Then you could lay your hand down.

I also agree with the posters that even K,3 suited is a garbage hand that shouldn't be played, especially at the no-limit tables.

4:58 AM

Blogger StudioGlyphic said...

I don't mind limping with K3 suited in late position if I don't think I'm going to be raised. Won't call a raise with it, though. And I definitely won't go over the top to a > pot-sized bet. I may be loose, but I ain't crazy.

11:42 AM


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