Wednesday, May 24, 2006

We were ahead.. no really..

I figure I show all the hands that Flux and I get into when we are behind, so for a change a nice little hand where we were ahead.

POKERSTARS GAME #5034205629: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.50/$1.00) - 2006/05/23 - 23:38:23 (ET)
Table 'Knysna' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: coop488 ($60.65 in chips)
Seat 2: HawaiiHoldm ($92 in chips)
Seat 3: Robt1975 ($88.65 in chips)
Seat 4: BEntenman ($183.05 in chips)
Seat 5: Random_Rules ($96 in chips)
Seat 6: vluff ($25.95 in chips)
Seat 7: Layrisse1979 ($69 in chips)
Seat 8: SirFWALGMan ($71.35 in chips)
Seat 9: pounder55 ($72.80 in chips)
SirFWALGMan: posts small blind $0.50
pounder55: posts big blind $1
vluff: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SirFWALGMan [Jh Kh]
coop488: folds
HawaiiHoldm: raises $3 to $4
Robt1975: folds
BEntenman: folds
Random_Rules: folds
vluff: calls $3
Layrisse1979: calls $4
SirFWALGMan: calls $3.50
pounder55: folds

Now normally we might fold KJh here, but we are getting into it with a big stack. We want to mix it up with people who it pays to stack. KJh is a nice starting hand as far as draws and it is not too much to call, we also have three way action and some dead money so lets see what happens.

*** FLOP *** [4h 6h Th]

Now this is a really good flop for us. All we are scared of really here is the Ace high flush. So we are going to check. Are we going to call a bet? Well lets see how it unfolds.

SirFWALGMan: checks
HawaiiHoldm: bets $16
vluff: raises $5.95 to $21.95 and is all-in
Layrisse1979: folds

Oh my! This is pretty good. So vluff just called the raise pre-flop, but he likes his hand now. Flux says "SET". I am not sure. Why go all in with a set on a flush board? I guess we will have to see. Now I think Hawaii has some overcards or something. Should we string him along? No way. We were going all in on the check raise no matter what. Playing our strong hands strong and getting paid because nobody beleives us.

SirFWALGMan: raises $45.40 to $67.35 and is all-in

At this point Hawaii goes into the tank. Only real hand I put him on that scares me now is AA with the Ace of hearts. Does that hand call the all in here?

HawaiiHoldm: calls $51.35

Finally BOOYAH!

*** TURN *** [4h 6h Th] [Kd]
*** RIVER *** [4h 6h Th Kd] [As]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
SirFWALGMan: shows [Jh Kh] (a flush, King high)
HawaiiHoldm: mucks hand
SirFWALGMan collected $90.80 from side pot
vluff: shows [6d 6s] (three of a kind, Sixes)
SirFWALGMan collected $79.85 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $173.65 Main pot $79.85. Side pot $90.80. | Rake $3
Board [4h 6h Th Kd As]
Seat 1: coop488 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: HawaiiHoldm mucked [Tc Ts]
Seat 3: Robt1975 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: BEntenman folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Random_Rules folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: vluff showed [6d 6s] and lost with three of a kind, Sixes
Seat 7: Layrisse1979 (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: SirFWALGMan (small blind) showed [Jh Kh] and won ($170.65) with a flush, King high
Seat 9: pounder55 (big blind) folded before Flop

So basically we got into a perfect storm kind of hand. Two sets drawing to boats. No other flush outs. This actually gives us an even better hand because two more outs are dead.

So the questions are:

A. Is anyone afraid of the Ace high flush here?
B. If you had the set of tens or sixes do you get stacked here?

It is nice when you get multiple people to call an all in and scoop that nice pot. Very nice. Also one thing I *should* improve on in my NL game is topping of my buyin. I left $40 on the table because I was down that much. I tend to be the one buyin kind of guy who plays it to the felt but that can be unprofitable.


Blogger Drizztdj said...

To switch the question if the sets would have checked behind would you have stacked off if the board paired on the turn?

5:58 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

A: Yes, there are always donkey draw-ers and I think that's what vluff was trying to get any potential Ah draw to lay down when he pushed in his feeble stack, even though he had the worst of it and didn't know it.

B: No, same reason. Someone might have the nut draw and go for it. (Or, someone might have flopped 2nd nuts.) But depends on the table play as always.

A catch22 situation, but good questions, nonetheless.

Like to see your answer to drizz's question.

6:19 AM

Blogger Klopzi said...

A. Is anyone afraid of the Ace high flush here?

No...but I've been stacked twice when I flopped a my K-high flush and lost to an A-high flush (once flopped, once rivered)

B. If you had the set of tens or sixes do you get stacked here?

Nope - I play weak tight. I raise with my set and fold to too much action.

6:31 AM

Blogger SirFWALGMan said...

Not in this case since Flux already put SOMEONE on a boat draw. We are favored to win this hand on the flop so we get our money in and let it ride.. if everyone checked behind and the board paired on the turn I think we check/fold.

6:36 AM

Blogger Pokerwolf said...

A: Never fear monsters under the bed. As you said, the only hand you're afraid of here is AA with Ah. Ram and jam.

B: With more than one opponent on this flop, I'd play it very carefully. There's no way in hell I'd go all-in as a short stack with bottom set here. There's too many cards that beat me. The guy with TT played it right on the flop, but he shouldn't have called the all-ins with that board.

6:47 AM

Blogger TripJax said...

"Also one thing I *should* improve on in my NL game is topping of my buyin. I left $40 on the table because I was down that much. I tend to be the one buyin kind of guy who plays it to the felt but that can be unprofitable."

This is a good point to think about...most have a hard time doing this because of the reason you mentioned...I'm hard wired to stop loss, but that also stops gain to a point. I'm leaning towards the fluxer style as it just seems to make sense in many ways. It takes time to learn and grow in this way, for me at least...

7:31 AM

Blogger Falstaff said...

Since I had the horseshoe firmly lodged in my rectum last night (check my hand history post for details), I proved that I was willing to get stacked in a set over set situation, but not with the flush lying out there in the open like that.

So no, I'm not afraid of the A-high flush there, and no, if I've got the set I'm taking the free turn card, and then probably getting stacked on the turn if you check again. I'm less likely to get stacked with the big stack than with the small stack, as the awwfukkits are more apt to grab me when I'm short.

7:43 AM

Blogger CJ said...

I'll bust on a K-high flush every day of the week and twice on Sunday. There's no reason not to get your money in on that flop. If the boat comes, so be it. If the A-high flush beats you, so be it. It's a cash game, get as much money in as you can when you reasonably believe you're way ahead.

Now the sets... with three hearts on the board and so many willing to play for all their cash... I'm not sure I get all my money in there. Drawing to a boat is tough.

8:55 AM

Blogger Wes said...

First off, your point about playing against the big stack is dumb if you aren't playing with the max allowed buy-in.

Secondly, this is .50/1 NL, there aren't no way in hell am I ever folding top set on the flop to the stupid monkeys that play this level.

9:25 AM

Blogger Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazo said...

I agree 100% with Wes's comments, and most of the others above. As CJ said, if you're failing to push your hardest because your have a King-high flush and are afraid of the Ace-high flush, then you just didn't come to play the right way that night. The flush possibility when you hold a set is a little different in that there seem to be so many flush chasers out in the cash games online. Probably more than any other type of draw, people just love them some sOOted cards.

9:46 AM

Blogger Jestocost said...

I don't think you can be afraid of that here. You're going to be ahead here most of the time. If it happens, it happens.

Of course, I wasn't afraid of the A high flush with the exact same holding when I dropped $100+ to that exact hand in a pot at the MGM, so what do I know. There was a paired board in my hand, so at least I slowed down and got the bigger flush to slow down with me.

10:08 AM

Blogger Tom aka 10,000 Days said...

A. Is anyone afraid of the Ace high flush here?

Absolutely not. Good for him if he flopped an ace high flush. The chances of two people flopping it like that are too slim for me to give consideration.

B. If you had the set of tens or sixes do you get stacked here?

Yep, especially if I have the 10's. Not like you're drawing dead if some donk flopped a baby flush. I'm also pushing with bottom set if I'm short stack. If you're not pushing there, what exactly are you waiting for? I don't condsider set over set much the same as I don't stop to consider losing to a higher flopped flush.

10:21 AM

Blogger G-Rob said...

"Secondly, this is .50/1 NL, there aren't no way in hell am I ever folding top set on the flop to the stupid monkeys that play this level. "

I'm glad someone else feels this way. Absolutely NO chance I fold the top set in that situation.

12:15 PM

Blogger smokkee said...

if i'm holding a flopped second nut flush, i'm not gonna worry about another player flopping the nut flush. obv, i wouldn't want to see another heart or the board to pair. the odds of flopping a flush are over 100 to 1. not sure the exact odds. if i'm sitting on a set, i'm going to draw in a three way pot to the boat. even with the lower set. it's rare to run into set over set. so i'm going broke there. i'm not gonna worry about a higher set. if that happens so be it but, i'm not laying down a set after the flop. i'll insta call a three way all in. maybe a leak in my game but, that's how i play it now.

2:03 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

OOOps, wrong answer. Yepper, I lose.
In regards to my "pushed with his massive stack" statement, vluff's raise was $5.95 and he was the table shortie. Thus, I was being sarcastic.
So why was he short? Did he just lose a big pot? Has he lost multiple buy-in's and drawing with the Ah? Again, depends on table play. (I personally have lost an all-in-post-flop K-high flush to a four-flush board when my opponent had The A. Hence, my statement about draw-ers at the table. So would I "think" about it? Obviously. You asked the question as well. But would I be "afraid" of it. Naw, not the made nuts anyway. I would have played it just the same...and lost on a draw.
Bloggers: 1
slb: 0
And don't look for me so you can take my dead money. I don't do the ring game often. Go figure.

2:22 PM

Blogger Jules said...

It's 118-1 to flop a flush in the first place, and 208-1 for two people at a table to flop a flush. If you're worried about an Ace high flush in that situation, then you'll be worried somebody has flopped quads every time the cards hit the felt.

Personally, I'd be rubbing my hands with glee at these two little donkies making these moves with sets (true Saturday night live play specials). I'll get my money in and let it ride - you're miles and in front, and if they hit the boat, well, that's poker.

3:03 PM

Blogger Johnny Mac said...

what if you have 24h (and the flop is more like [6h 7h Th]

9:06 AM


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