Thursday, June 22, 2006

Bite My Weiner CC

I admit I was in a whiney mood in the WWDN:Not. One outers on the river in your cash game do that to you. I still do not know how he called me with pockets 9's and a Queen on the board. I happened to have two pair. Oh well. So in a foul mood I start dominating the WWDN:Not. Taking my anger out on the poor innocent fools. I finally get to the final table and get involved in this hand with Ick.

PokerStars Game #5336615084: Tournament #26730122, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2006/06/22 - 23:36:50 (ET)
Table '26730122 2' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: Iakaris (3810 in chips)
Seat 2: SirFWALGMan (8170 in chips)
Seat 4: jjok (2805 in chips)
Seat 5: surflexus (4655 in chips)
Seat 7: Katitude (4540 in chips)
Seat 8: djhomeschool (1600 in chips)
Seat 9: MiamiDon (2920 in chips)
djhomeschool: posts small blind 75
MiamiDon: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SirFWALGMan [Jh Jc]
Iakaris: raises 300 to 450
SirFWALGMan: calls 450
jjok: folds
surflexus: folds
Katitude: folds
djhomeschool: calls 375
MiamiDon said, "push time"
MiamiDon: folds
*** FLOP *** [8s 4h 2s]
djhomeschool: checks
MiamiDon said, "cash game i re-raise hard there"
Iakaris: bets 750
SirFWALGMan: raises 6970 to 7720 and is all-in
djhomeschool: folds
Iakaris: calls 2610 and is all-in
djhomeschool said, "Typing 3360 is too tough"
*** TURN *** [8s 4h 2s] [Qs]
Iakaris said, "yes"
*** RIVER *** [8s 4h 2s Qs] [Js]
SirFWALGMan said, "dang"
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Iakaris: shows [As Ts] (a flush, Ace high)
SirFWALGMan: shows [Jh Jc] (three of a kind, Jacks)
Katitude said, "well"
SirFWALGMan said, "nh"
jjok said, "oof"
Iakaris collected 8220 from pot
jjok said, "nh iak"
SirFWALGMan said, "and um, good call"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 8220 | Rake 0
Board [8s 4h 2s Qs Js]
Seat 1: Iakaris showed [As Ts] and won (8220) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 2: SirFWALGMan showed [Jh Jc] and lost with three of a kind, Jacks
Seat 4: jjok folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: surflexus folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Katitude (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: djhomeschool (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 9: MiamiDon (big blind) folded before Flop

So anyway I am a little steamed and tell Ick I think he played this hand horribly when he asked. I may have started telling him before he asked. Now while I agree this was not the worst hand ever played in a blogger tourney I stand by my statement that this was the wrong play.

Here is my reasoning.

1. He is at the final table. Four to the money. He has a time investment here.
2. The blinds are 75/150. If he folds here he has over 3K in chips. That is PLENTY.
3. If he does not catch a card in this race he is out. Cya. Bye Bye.
4. If he had pushed instead of making a wimpy bet I would have respected this play alot more.

Anyone agree or disagree it was not the right play?

I totally beleive this is where a skilled MTT player wins. Making good laydowns so that he can survive and make the big money. Albeit this is a small MTT but that is how I feel. I will say on Ick's behalf that he is a good player and I enjoyed playing against him. I also enjoyed my 3-outer to knock him out of the tourney. However that is only because I am vindictive.

I actually will defend my 3-outer play, saying it was better than this play. The only reason I say that is because he was short stacked and pre-flop I put his range at any Ace or small pockets to a monster. In this case he had a monster JJ vs my AJ, and we were basically all in pre-flop. I turned the Ace. Anyways -- Sorry for being angry at the beat. It has been a tough few days in the suckout department. Congrats to MiamiDon for coming in second. He was out chipped like 4:1 at the final table and I used it to my advantage. The outcome was never really in doubt. He tried though. Some Surf guy took third. I have a rule. People who are winning too much must be crushed everytime I get a chance. He eeked into the money so I failed. Next time! Congrats to everyone. Kitty made another final table too. She has been running very well.

Oh yeah.. it appears as if the challenge team is set. I just need Hoy to agree but it should end up being Duggle, Hoy and I vs Jordon, Gary and Tripjax. Should be fun. We need to set the terms. I think it should be 5-10$ per person AND IF your team wins the last longer AND anyone on your team outlasts EVERYONE on the other team then your team has to pay double. What say?

24 Comments:

Blogger Iakaris aka I.A.K. said...

I'll keep it short and sweet until my post goes up. Look for it Waffles my boy, got some shots of you in action this week!

It was good playing with you as well, and in no way did I mind you stating you didn't like my call. Like we talked about, these tourneys have a learning component that you don't find anywhere else online. You weren't screaming you were just a little tilted so making your point emphatically.

All good. Still like my call, in the context it was made. We'll agree to disagree.

As for DADI, I'm pretty sure those boys are taking all-comers, and Eric (not confirmed, but has no choice - I forbid anyone else to ask BD to join their team) and Fuel and I are poised to lay waste to that thing. You three want a side bet, let us know...

11:28 PM

 
Blogger DuggleBogey said...

I didn't hate the play. If you had top pair then he had 15 outs, which is around 60% to win. Even if he puts you on an overpair less than aces, he's got a coin toss, and winner leads the tourney.

I agree that a push by him would have been a better play. The 750 into a 1500 pot is a curious bet.

I hope Hoy is on board with our team. Obviously one person will out last all three of the other players, but I think if all three of one team out last all three from the other team, the stake should be doubled.

11:47 PM

 
Blogger HighOnPoker said...

We have agreed to your terms and now await your determination of the amount of said wager.

6:46 AM

 
Blogger DP said...

Iak would have had about T2700 (7th chip position out of 9 remaining) had he folded in this coinflip situation (effectively surrendering a large portion of his chips without contest).

Because Iak called and won the race rather than meekly folding when he knew he had a lot of outs, he became the chip leader. Sirf didn't re-raise preflop, which is arguably the biggest mistake made in this hand, although I realize he didn't re-raise preflop because of being in EP.

I like Iakaris's play in this hand. You have to give yourself a chance to win in these tournaments; that means gambling sometimes, because the blinds get so high.

7:05 AM

 
Blogger DP said...

Also, I realize the importance of survival in tournaments, but this situation is too good to pass up for the reasons I described above.

7:10 AM

 
Blogger DP said...

Of course, now I noticed (as Duggle mentioned) that Iakaris only bet 750 on the flop when his preflop raise was 450, so that's the only thing I disagree wtih because he exerted little pressure and had no folding equity with that bet even though he would like to win the hand right there.

7:15 AM

 
Blogger Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazo said...

Waffles, Duggle, I am IN. Lezdoit.

You guys can pick the stakes, $5 or $10 is all the same to my 10 grand ass. ha ha.

And I like the double-down theory if all 3 outlast all 3. In reality the odds of that are exceedingly low, and if anyone gets the benefit of that it will be us, not those Midwestern bozos (and Jordan).

7:49 AM

 
Blogger Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazo said...

Btw Waffles, congrats on the WWdN Not last night. Glad you seem to be getting back to business here in advance of our DADI rompage.

7:50 AM

 
Blogger SirFWALGMan said...

I just dont get it.. I guess it is good that all of the people playing MTTs beleive it is good to crash and burn so close to the money on a draw. I beleive in coin flips early in tourneys and outwaiting and outlasting people like DP and Ick late in tourneys.. I guess that is why I won.

8:29 AM

 
Blogger cc said...

Never actually saw the hand that I was harassing you about until now (thanks for the hand history). Instacall. The only thing he doesn't have the odds to call with is a set; everything else he has to call. Close to the money is girlie-poker, so I would throw that out myself (or he should have mucked the hand UTG pre-flop). He was getting all his money in after the flop regardless. The 50% pot bet out of position? Unclear there. I guess he could have bought the pot if someone had AKo or something.

Thanks for the shoutout, girlie-poker expert! Have a good weekend.

8:34 AM

 
Blogger jjok said...

Play for an hour and a half, get a flush draw and face a push.

That's gambling.

Ballsy by iak....not sure I would have done the same.

8:42 AM

 
Blogger Eric a.k.a. Bone Daddy said...

What's the question again.

I think this is a case where your reputation proceeded you.

I have to look at Mike the Mouths all in bet on as the bubble boy last year in the main event, he wasn't there to make the cut, he was there to win. I don't play that way often enough. He hit his cards, either way, that was a strong move by you and call by Ike. Interesting hand.

10:32 AM

 
Blogger CarmenSinCity said...

Thanks for the birthday wishes waffles baby!! Congratulations on taking down the WWdn NOT. I'll make sure to pass the message on to Don that he should stay out of your way :)

10:37 AM

 
Blogger StB said...

I am with you on this one Waffles. It is one thing to push with the draw and to call with a draw. Pushing is the move to make. Calling is weak and generally gets you booted out. Now if he had bet more on the flop, committing himself, then calling is ok. But the flop bet was rather weak.

10:51 AM

 
Blogger SirFWALGMan said...

The thinking of some people is insane. While I agree in general playing to "Make the money" is a bad idea in lets say a 2000 person MTT and the money means 4$, when you are playing a MTT, 3 places pay, you are close to the money, the money is 3x your buyin where first is only 9x your buyin, you have plenty of chips relative to the buyin, no reason to risk it.

Girlie poker is leading out with a weak bet. I would have had MUCH MORE respect for his play if he pushed the great flop he got and put me to the test. If I then called with a naked overpair (which I may or may not have done) then I would have respected him trying to take down the pot with decent outs. Instead he bent over and said I know I am behind give it to me, and got lucky with a bad call..

I am totally surprised at all of the responses that his call was good. So far the only one who thinks the call was wrong is the guy who wins the WPBT games every single time.. hmm..

11:10 AM

 
Blogger Guin said...

Waffles,

I am sure if you check your notes that you know I agree with your thinking. I push there later in a tournament with overcards and nut flush draw. Power poker vs. try to get it free and then defend when it looks like you were stealing it from him.

It may have been one of those cases where he wanted to get your chips in the middle. Can he put your range of hands on A9 or A low with no pair? I don't know but I don't think that would be in the range I would have you on.

The only way I like the call is if he had 56s in which case he has so many outs that it makes sense to try to lure you to reraise him.

11:30 AM

 
Blogger smokkee said...

IKE should've pushed on that flop but, i don't mind the call. if you want to take it down and not just sneak ITM, you should play your hands aggressively.

but, wut do i know i jammed with QQ vs Waffles AA after he reraised me preflop. should've laid it down but, he caught AA the hand before. just couldn't put him on that. felt like he wuz taking advantage of his image from the previous hand where he took out csquare with his monster.

GH waffles, u lucky bastard.

11:33 AM

 
Blogger smokkee said...

by way, if you guys are forming teams for the DADI, are you interested in adding a 3rd team. i can think of a couple of other players i wouldn't mind teaming up with. let me know.

11:35 AM

 
Anonymous mookie99 said...

I'm sure Iak will explain his thinking behind his play, but for me...in these blogger tournies everyone is gunning for first place. Making it into the money is OK, but taking down first place is extra special against that field.

Because of that, I probably would have put a pot sized bet (or all in) out there or check-raised all in on the flop.

What would you have done if Iak checked the flop ? All in as well ?

11:37 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We agree on something Waffles. Yes, I went out early last night, but I don't make that call either...if I ever got there against that competition. I've had too much experience pushing into the chip leader on a draw and losing a lot of time invested when I don't have the nuts. Odds, outs, blah blah blah...when you're at that stage of a tourney and there are 3 other people you have outchipped at the table, you don't make that call against the chip leader. Especially, whenever you have to click that "call" button and say to yourself, "I have outs, but I hope I hit." Bad move. Best player won though. Hehe.
slb159

11:38 AM

 
Blogger SirFWALGMan said...

Yup. I did win didnt I slb. Lol.

If Iak checks I do the same thing that I did. I did not think he had AA-QQ. It was a read and I went with it. I KNEW I was ahead. The small bet just confirmed it. I applied as much pressure as possible and after 30 seconds of time ticking down he called. Which in my opinion shows he was not sure about his call.

12:06 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mook, to offer my additional, yet donkish, thoughts:
Iak raised 2x BB UTG...hmmm. "I wanna see a flop." Then, his flop bet is just over half of his pf raise. Two overcards checks that flop and gets out of the way to any bet. But the weak bet says, "I got a pice of that." Judging on the pf action, it warrants an immediate flush draw that wants to see another card cheap. If he checks, of course Waffles makes the same move since he reads Iak for what I just explained. It could have turned out differently and had Iak saying, "Why did I call off all my chips on a draw at this point in the tourney?" But alas, he hit. Just my thoughts. If I'm wrong, let me know.
slb159

2:01 PM

 
Blogger Miami Don said...

I'll say be careful with that push monkey style there waffles.

You called his UTG preflop raise. Then when he made what you thought was a weak bet you pushed. If he has something stronger than JJ you get stuck and he doubles up.

Although this hand is a slightly different example, I love feigning weakness with a good hand and trapping over aggressive internet players. With a made hand this is a perfect example of how to stack a guy. Faking weakness sets a brilliant trap.

What about odds here? He's calling off his last $2610 to win $5610 and he's only a 46% dog in this spot. Seems like another good reason to push.

4:37 PM

 
Blogger Iakaris aka I.A.K. said...

Your DADI team should clearly be named WaffleHouse and when you make it official, the New School: Bone Daddy, Fuel55, & your hero and mine (Me), will be happy to put $30 up against your average finish (same as Jordan's bet).

Blogger gave me all kinds of crap trying to get screenshots up last two days, so I had to settle for bringing you the heartwarming tale of an ingenue in Korea being roughly abused by a villainous poker blogger. If her blog doesn't make you laugh Waffles, something has died inside you...you should strongly consider Melinda for blog of the month...

8:39 AM

 

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