Sunday, March 06, 2005

S000ted Connectors

Ok. I have what I hope is a great question. Everyone I have talked to has told me S00ted connectors good, K high flush card bad. Now what the hell is up with that? If you lose alot of money in NL with K high flushes then what the hell are you doing playing something that is going to end up being the 8 high flush? You really can only bet the high end of the straight hard. If both the straight and flush hit the board then you have some protection against suckout by a higher straight I guess.. but I just do not get S000ted Connectors. Anyone want to 'splain?


Blogger Mourn said...

The reason hands like Kx suited aren't good isn't because the K high flush isn't good. It's fairly rare that you see two flushes in the same hand in holdem. The problem with, say, K5 suited is that it only has one good way to win and that's a flush. 87 suited can make a flush or a straight and there is a third important distinction: K5 is more likely to be in against KQ or AK (or A5 for that matter), making any pair likely to be kicker-dominated. Because the hands you're often playing against are two high cards, you can't feel as good with a K43 board holding K5 as you can an 843 board holding 87. In the latter case, if you're up against two big cards, you're in good shape. In the former, if you're against KQ or AK you're toast.

So I don't think the knock on Kx suited is that the flush is likely to lose, it's that it has fewer ways to win and is more likely to be dominated than a suited connecter.

Taking all of that into consideration, I still think you have to be a good player to play suited connectors well. I see people all the time callin all-ins with 98 suited - that is stupid. The point of the hand is to get involved in a cheap flop and see if you can hit it because it's difficult for your opponent to read if you do, and easy to get away from if you don't. If you've got 87 suited and you miss the flush draw and flop AK9, you're going to toss it easily. On the flip side, if you've got K5 suited and see that same flop with no flush draw, you're more likely to get stuck trying to buy it or trying to call someone down reading a bluff, and that's usually not going to go well.

7:45 AM

Blogger DuggleBogey said...

How many outs do you have with an open ended straight flush draw vs a high pair?

Remember most players will only raise pre-flop with a pair or high cards. So if you call with smaller suited connectors, like 67, 78, or 89, You can flop a good draw and the other player will have NO idea. You know what he needs, he doesn't know what you need.

9:43 AM

Blogger Shelly said...

Ditto everything DuggleBogey said. I'll only even think about doing Kx suited from the button if my kicker is 10 or higher. Even at the most basic of levels - if you hit a K on the flop, you can't even be confident that your pair is good, since lots of people will play any face card. If your kicker sucks and the flush doesn't come through, you may find yourself feeling obligated to bet or call small bets down to the river and lose on your kicker.

Same with Ax baby kickers. I just don't play them, except maybe from late position and suited. Even if your high card hits, you just can't be confident it will win.

It's almost like - if I'm holding K8 suited and play it for a cheap flop, I'm hoping I DON'T hit a King, otherwise I'm in a tough position. In that case, why bother playing the hand at all? In my head, if I do bother to play such a hand, it's hit four to the flush or drop it.

10:35 AM

Blogger Heafy said...

From an Omaha point of view - Suited connectors can be very profitable. Just this past weekend I lost a 20BB pot with an Ace high flush on a non-paired board. It hurts, it hurts a lot.

6:34 PM

Blogger Aequitas58 said...

Play them. You'll understand why they are... THE SHIT. :)

11:02 PM

Blogger skitch said...

To be the Devil's Advocate... you can keep playing your K5 and when you catch your kicker, you'll be able to really suckout on lame hands like KQ and AK. Mwahahahah!

(Yes, I just got beat in a tourney by someone who called my AK pre-flop raise with a K5s and flopped 2 pair.)

4:00 PM


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