Monday, December 22, 2008

Ultimate Bet and Absolute

Mondogarage had an interesting post in response to Hoyazo and Ultimate Bet. On the one hand Hoyazo is only concerned about making money from a weak ass site. Good poker fundamentals there. I can side up with him there. Mondogarage goes on to make some potentially good hypothetical points about the slippery slope of playing on a cheating site.

I think the main reason to not play on Ultimate Bet or Absolute poker is the one we have sported since the inception of online poker. You know what I am talking about right? You read through those forum posts where someone thinks they were cheated but honestly they suck or just got unlucky. The whole forum swarms the OP and tells him he is an idiot. The responding commenters in between gay momma jokes and pictures of naked donkeys make the point "It is in the sites best interest to keep the game clean because they will not make money if they are found to be cheating".

Think about that. If they are cheating they will not make money. The people playing on those sites will go away. There are too many clean sites for people to play on for people to put up with shit like that.

Now fast forward to the reality. Players will go to wherever they think they have an edge. If nobody cares if a site is cheating and good players like Hoyazo and Chad will still play at these sites then there is absolutely no reason for these sites to not cheat. Sure if they get caught there might be a quick whiplash effect. If this is not going to be a lasting shutdown of the site then what is the point.

I do not begrudge Hoyazo or Chad for making a killing. In poker you are really in it for yourself. I do think it would be a much better and safer online environment if people cared a little about the entire state of poker and shut down sites like UB and Absolute. Several bloggers have made their way to these sites recently and it just proves that there really is no reason for these sites to not cheat us all. So keep on cheating. Nobody cares.


Blogger Katitude said...

I <3 wavvles ( i have a code)

4:50 PM

Blogger DuggleBogey said...

But if all the good players leave a site because of the cheating, and the only players left are ignorant idiots who don't know, doesn't that then become a good place for good players to take mobneys off the the ignorant idiots?

4:57 PM

Blogger Mondogarage said...

Yes, DuggleBogey, and that's the crux of what Chad and Hoy have done.

I don't begrudge them their success one bit (and they've already demonstrated a great ability to take down major scores elsewhere). They're winning big on UB ostensibly because they're very strong players.

That they've gone to that particular site to do it illustrates the point of my blog today, though.

4:59 PM

Blogger Gnome said...

I hope people who play on UB/Absolute get cheated and lose all their money.

5:32 PM

Blogger Grampy said...

In Hoy's case, playing at UB also provides the wonderful bonus that no one can track his surprisingly dismal results at

7:16 PM

Blogger Loretta8 said...

wait a minute. you're telling me that Hoyazo made a decision that's completely self-centered and ethically questionable? you're kidding, he would never do that....

and LOL at Grampy

7:36 PM

Blogger DrChako said...

And excellent and insightful post from teh Waffle-man. I've thought the same thing for a while. It's naive to think there would be no cheating in online poker. Of course, most of the cheating will happen at stakes where you can actually win some serious dough. Below that, it's probably not worth the effort.

That's where you make your killing, of course.

I've deliberately played in home games where I knew there was collusion. I just knew who to stay away from. That's a little harder online, but the point is the same. If you are making money, who cares?


8:16 PM

Blogger jjok said...

dugs is right.....well said.

It's like trying to emphasize some moral obligation to not play there. I don't get it.

They have not cheated, they have had success, and ultimately they are the ones taking the chance of getting screwed......which I don't think they will.

At best, buyer beware.....otherwise good luck to them and I hope they do well there.

10:46 PM

Blogger jjok said...

and Grampy.....

Seriously dude, eat a dick.

You're that freak that points out sharkscope ratings at the tables and hangs around 15 minutes after busting on a 60/40 in utter disbelief of someone beating you. Pointing out his OfficialPokerRankingsAreEverythingAndShouldBeHeldCloseToYourChestLikeTheBibleDon' results is asanine.

Balls. Mouth. You.

10:52 PM


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