Thursday, April 14, 2005

Oops, I did it again

Well I had a great night tonight. So I decide to get some MTT experience. I play the el cheapo freeroll. I have a ton of chips and my KK is bet all in by QJ on a Qxx flop, he has me covered, and spikes a Q on the river. That sucks. I am happy that I got to 120th place this time. I am getting better.

So while all this is going on I decide to sit down with the Film Geek. In addition the man from Poker Medicine was sandwiched between us. Geek was sweating me in the MTT and helped a lot. So I decide to go play some 25/NL with him. We end up head to head with this hand:

***** Hand History for Game 1897084495 *****
$25 NL Hold'em - Friday, April 15, 01:29:24 EDT 2005
Table Table 37600 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 3: MikeD006 ( $47.7 )
Seat 6: Poker Medicine ( $31.25 )
Seat 7: Geek ( $36.9 )
Seat 4: FWALGMan ( $55.05 )
bosco posts small blind [$0.1].
tjesser posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to FWALGMan [ Kc Ad ]
Pablo_Shiraz calls [$0.25].
MikeD006 folds.
FWALGMan raises [$1].
JJTaylor3 folds.
Poker Medicine folds.
Geek raises [$3].
ReboAndZooti folds.
katoandbosco folds.
tjesser folds.
Pablo_Shiraz calls [$2.75].
ajrand has joined the table.
Tell a friend about and earn $50 & 1000 Party Points. Your friend receives $25!
FWALGMan calls [$2].

So far so good. He raised a bit. I guess I am so used to 100/NL that this did not seem like a big raise to me. Ha! Hey, when your down in the 25/NL pit playing with people it gets really hard to take some thing seriously.

** Dealing Flop ** [ 8c, Qc, Jd ]
Pablo_Shiraz checks.
FWALGMan checks.
Geek bets [$9].
Pablo_Shiraz folds.
FWALGMan calls [$9].

Now here is where I paused for a second. I had Geek on one AIM and Poker Medicine on the other.

[01:30] FWA LGman: watch me suckout on jedi
[01:30] PokerMedicine: lol
[01:31] PokerMedicine: oh god

Little did I know how true these words would ring..

** Dealing Turn ** [ 5c ]
FWALGMan checks.
Geek is all-In.
FWALGMan: i gotta call ya
FWALGMan calls [$24.9].

So my hand has improved from a straight draw to a straight and flush draw. I know. I have no odds. I suck. I just did not feel like laying down this hand to a measly $24.90 bet. It is so hard to adjust to playing lower limits. I think some of you who used to come down to the 25/NL game (Otis, Iggy?) might get a little loose sometimes? Ok, maybe it is just me. So basically I have 12 outs. I got 8 flush outs and 4 tens. The flush is not the nut flush. So I call.. and I bet Sean can tell ya what happened next!

** Dealing River ** [ 3c ]
FWALGMan shows [ Kc, Ad ] a flush, king high.
JediMyndTrik shows [ Jh, Js ] three of a kind, jacks.
FWALGMan wins $74.15 from the main pot with a flush, king high.

Jedi was wicked mad at me! I have never seen him so mad:

[01:31] FWA LGman: sorry man
[01:31] Geek: you MOTHER FUCKER
[01:31] FWA LGman: I had a straight and flush draw
[01:31] FWA LGman: I couldnt fold it
[01:32] Geek: you so did *not* have odds there
[01:32] FWA LGman: I know

So I felt kinda bad about coming into the Geeks house and taking his money. So I worked out a deal. I gave him back 25, and since Party only lets you transfer 50 at a time I sponsored him in a freeroll. Now I have seen him play and I think I have a great shot at making some money that means something. He is an EXCELLENT tourney player.

Now I am going to do one last thing to justify my call there. Besides that fact that I did not think he had trips. The table chat afterwards: Priceless!

MikeD006: Ouch
Pablo_Shiraz: vnh
MikeD006: What a fucking suckout
Tjesser: How the frig is that a nice hand!
Tjesser: I mean how the frig is that a nice hand!

To myself: Well it won didn’t it?

Ajrand: That’s what I want to know
Ajrand: That was a horrible hand
Ajrand: Jedi Man shoulda kicked his ass

To myself: Thank GOD we are not playing live!

Pablo_Shiraz: sorry, I saw the flush

To myself: No, you’re a chaser to you loser! That’s why you think it is a good hand!

FWALGMan: I had the straight and flush draw I felt I needed to call it.
Pablo_Shiraz: absolutely!

To myself: See, I told you about Pablo!

FWALGMan: It was loose but not that bad.

To myself: Ok, I am trying to justify sucking out on the Geek. Ha! Let’s see if we can stoke the table some more!

Ajrand: You are kidding, right?
Tjesser: That’s not even f*ing close to pot odds.

To myself: Well its only off by 1 or 2, maybe 3.

FWALGMan: Yeah, I know.
Tjesser: At least don’t claim it was a good hand.

Geek: *goes to FWALG’s house*
Geek: *sets it on fire*

To myself: That’s a little extreme. It would cost you more than $34 in plane fare!

Tjesser (After a suckout): Mine was loose, yours was damn near retarded.
FWALGMan: Mine was retarded?
FWALGMan: Boy I must be dumb
Tjesser: Definitly. I will check the history and get the odds.
Geek: Tjesser, trust me
Tjesser: They were really bad.
Geek: He didn’t have odds.

To myself: Maybe not pot odds, but I had some kinda odds, I won didn’t I?

MikeD006: you guys are way right

To myself: Ok, so now all the fucking genus’s (geek not included) playing the high stakes world of 25/NL are ganging up on me. Ha! Why don’t you stroke each other off while you are at it.

MikeD006: Jedi played it right, and had him dominated, he made the bad call and made the runner-runner.
MikeD006: All Luck
MikeD006: No Odds
FWALGMan: I did not get a runner-runner when all the money was in.

To myself: Pay attention idiot. I did have the straight draw. No odds. No right to call, but at least I had a shot when all the money went in. If I called 34 bucks on the flop I would have been really drawing dead.

At this point Poker Medicine has to stoke the table up again!

Poker Medicine: That’s true!
Geek: But you called a pot sized bet with only a gut shot

To myself: Stop confounding me with facts.

FWALGMan: Yeah, that was fun!
Poker Medicine: I think he played it perfectly.
Tjesser: You had roughly 11 outs. So on the turn you needed to have 4:1 on your bet. So you did not even have close to pot odds.
FWALGMan: I feel so foolish now.

Anyway, this went on for a while. It was quite amusing. Ask anyone, I like to be the center of attention. The final insult to geek came when he raised pre-flop with the hammer. We had made up by now.:

FWALGMan: Your complaining about my play calling that crap!
Geek: I would not have called it to the river!
FWALGMan: I think you would have with your puny hammer!

Heh. That was for the benefit of the table coaches. The hammer rocks. Anyway it has been a fun filled night. Excellent play on 100/NL and 200/NL tables netted me over $160 and I even broke even at the 25/NL after sending geek the fifty. So if he can score in the tourney then it will have been a night well worth it!

*** UPDATE: The geek placed in the first tourney. I am going to let it ride since I am a gambler. I will keep you posted as to how my 33 bucks is doing now. Italics courtesy of the letter T and the Blogger April!


Blogger Chris Hanel said...


4:40 AM

Blogger SirFWALGMan said...

LMAO! That rocks! I wish you could factor in what you thought the guy had.. lol.

5:58 AM

Blogger DuggleBogey said...

Nobody commented what a terrible play it was going all in on the turn when any two clubs ALREADY had him beat?

7:07 AM

Blogger dum_a_chum said...

seriously, i think there's a pretty good chance i soiled myself at the table last night i was laughing so hard....

7:13 AM

Blogger SirFWALGMan said...

Were talking about my bad play here! Heh. Thanks for defending me? lol. Just as a note if he goes all in on the flop there is no way I call. The turn made an impossible call into just a really horrible one. heh.

7:38 AM

Blogger April said...

And YOU want to teach ME how to play poker??

7:59 AM

Blogger Shelly said...

Oh man, SirF, that's an awful hand! Gutshots don't even COUNT as a legitimate draw unless there are 5,347 people throwing money into the pot.

Nice gesture though to refund Geek some moolah. I'da been so pissed I'd have probably made some non-sexual comment about how you suck, and then logged off immediately and damaged defenseless objects in my house.

10:48 AM

Blogger SirFWALGMan said...

I think I might be getting better at poker, at least this time I realized it was a bad play. heh!

11:09 AM

Blogger Bill Rini said...

Sorry Geek but I gotta agree with Bogey here and say your all-in with a possible flush on board was almost as bad a play as sirfwalgman's call.

Let's review the action, 2 suited cards hit on the flop and you make a pot sized bet. Good. He calls!! You should be shitting in your pants when the third suited card hits on the turn. Had sirfwalgman had what he was supposed to have when he calls a bet on the flop with two suited cards you're behind in the hand. So what do you do when you're likely to be behind . . . you go all-in!!!!!

Sorry amigo, that's just my read on this one. He made a horrible call but your play wasn't exactly textbook either.

11:47 AM

Blogger Joe Speaker said...


I felt awfully bad about sucking out on The Geek in 2/4 at the B&M last Saturday night.

This was WAY worse. :)

11:48 AM

Blogger SirFWALGMan said...

At least I gave him his cash back! Lol! I bet nobody in Poker has ever done that before!!

11:58 AM

Blogger BadBlood said...

Not quite :)

Hammer Refund

12:29 PM

Blogger SirFWALGMan said...

Promises.. Promises..

1:07 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Downright hilarious!


2:34 PM

Blogger F-Train said...

To all of you that think Geek's play was so horrible - how do you want him to play the turn after FWALG's admittedly awful call on the flop?

Review: stack sizes - Geek $36, Fwalg $55.

PF: Fwalg raise from .25 to 1; Geek reraise from 1 to 3; Fwalg and one other call.

Geek flops middle set on a dangerous and coordinated board. Action checks to him, he bets pot. One fold, FWALG calls.

Third club falls on turn. Geek has $24 left in his stack; pot is $27 already. What is geek supposed to do here? If he checks, he may be giving a free card; if he bets, he has to bet at least $15 of his remaining $24. We all know FWALG is somewhat loose, so can you automatically put him on clubs just because he called the flop?

I say push all the way on this turn, because even if he does have the flush, you have ten outs on the river, and I'd rather get my money in first in this situation then given him the opportunity to a) bluff me off my hand, or b) catch a free river.

2:51 PM

Blogger SirFWALGMan said...

Obviously I played the Geek hand the worst of anyone. Like I said I was having fun. Sorry Geek! The only thing that saves him from me is if he bets all his money on the flop. No way I can call that. I would not have played it all in on the flop. No way. No how.

Here is another question though: We are all basing my bad play on the fact that he had trips. Focusing on the turn play where all the big money went in. What if he had KJ or AJ? Some people at 25/NL play that way. I doubt Geek would. Who know's though, if he thinks he is ahead and I am just drawing then he could have had AJ. What if that was what I put him on. I will not say I put him on anything, I was more concerned with what I was doing.. but that gives me 3 more outs making it like 15. If he has Jx then I have 18. Now were talking! I know that reading the hand everyone know's Geek had a set, but how would I know that? If I have 15 outs then I have like 58% chance of making the hand which is +EV. Just wondering how people figure in the unknown factor?

3:34 PM

Blogger Bill Rini said...

asphnxma, good analysis. I still think it was a questionable play though. If a card hits that completes the hand that you could resonably put your opponent on, you gotta at least consider slowing down. You may still end up pushing but you can't like the board. One of the more interesting things though is that you seem to suggest that pushing all-in with a set against a flush (assuming you put your opponent on a flush) with 10 outs is a better move than calling all-in with 11 outs (flush and straight draw). That's why in my previous post I said that this play was almost as bad as sirfwalgam's call (thinking about outs vs. outs of the two plays). I give a little more credit because he has a made hand that's pretty strong if his opponent is on a bluff or . . . still drawing but if he's up against the nut flush he's drawing just as thin as sirfwalgman was.

BTW, while I was writing this Geek IM'd me and said he was 100% positive that his opponent didn't have a flush and that he put him on AQo with one club. Ok, good read, maybe I reconsider here.

In IM with Geek he gives sirwalgman credit for a pretty good hand here. He eliminates AKs because how long it took sirwalgman to call. I'm not sure I eliminate that hand just because the guy takes a few seconds to call a 12x BB re-raise. He might be thinking Geek has AA or KK and so he could be considering whether or not he's dominated. He might also be thinking Geek is getting frisky and trying to get the hand heads-up with TT or some weaker hands and might have been pondering a re-raise himself. He also eliminates AJs because he falsely thought the J was a club but it's actually a diamond according to both his site and sirfwalgman. AJs might think a bit before calling a bet here too.

I'm not saying this wasn't a bad beat though. It was. Was it the worst I've ever seen? Not by far. It's poker! This stuff happens. How about that dude at the WSOP who flopped quad sevens and got runner, runner'd by quad nines.

5:37 PM

Blogger TripJax said...

tell me more about the quad 7 vs. quad 9 story. i gotta here that shit. that sounds sick. what year...what point in the tourney...details baby...

Poker In Arrears

6:35 PM

Blogger Bill Rini said...

My bad, it was actually flopped fives beat by runner, runner quad nines.

9:43 PM

Blogger F-Train said...

Pushing first with only 10 outs IS better than calling with 11, for the simple reason that you have a made hand and might not be behind (whereas, when you're on the draw with 11 outs, you don't have a made hand yet).

6:28 AM

Blogger Bill Rini said...

asphnxma, I get ya. I was just having fun with taking it down the slippery slope :-)

3:07 PM

Blogger StudioGlyphic said...

By the way, I don't think it's necessarily a terrible play to call a pot-sized bet on a gutshot draw.

However, this was not a situation that merited calling on that basis. :)

The preflop re-raise indicates strength, the pot-sized bet on the flop is too much to call relative to the stack sizes, etc.

I'm surprised that no one commented on geek's re-raise preflop. Seems to me you'd want to call in hopes of flopping a set or min-raise to isolate and still pray for a set, or at the very least, all rags. FWALG's raise is probably a big ace or a pocket pair, so you're going to have to dodge those overcards and/or flop a set to proceed with confidence after the flop.

Then again, I wasn't at that table, and it could be that there would be some willing callers for a reraise to a mere 8xBB.

I'm obviously behind in my blog reading.

2:17 AM


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